Short barrels and gas systems

[alan]

Are gas system improvements keeping pace with short barrels, or are manufacturers still saturating the market?

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

Are gas system improvements keeping pace with short barrels, or are manufacturers still saturating the market?

I think so.

There seemed to be a big leap to get 10" barrels functioning properly, but these days most of the popular ones have been tested in many lowers.

I think there's merit in what Q LLC is doing with the 8.6 blackout and 12" barrels. I think there's merit to having a bolt action on a modern sporting rifle. What say ye? What size length barrels are you speaking of?

I think a short barrel gas gun is something I always want to have, but I also want to have bolt actions. I tend to like the older traditional type firearms.

 

[Eastenerwesterner]

Really @alan we cannot discuss things like this in the Kommunist Republik .
It would put a target on our back.

I know as admin, you want to build the conversation and get clicks.

This may be a conversation for a free state like Idaho, but is inherently dangerous in the Kommunist Republik for us.

Maybe getting more into the 2A rights agenda would get you the clicks you need.
Duncan v Bonta for example.

 

[alan]

I think so.

There seemed to be a big leap to get 10" barrels functioning properly, but these days most of the popular ones have been tested in many lowers.

I think there's merit in what Q LLC is doing with the 8.6 blackout and 12" barrels. I think there's merit to having a bolt action on a modern sporting rifle. What say ye? What size length barrels are you speaking of?

I think a short barrel gas gun is something I always want to have, but I also want to have bolt actions. I tend to like the older traditional type firearms.

What Q is doing with the 8.6 Blackout and those 12" barrels is a perfect showcase of innovation. That 1:3 twist really helps squeeze out performance from a short barrel, which is just amazing. I’m on board with the bolt-action MSR vibe especially in a restrictive state like ours. A modern chassis bolt gun gives you all that modularity without the headaches of "featureless" or "fixed-mag" setups. The market is definitely packed but the products tailored for specialized calibers and suppressor hosting are lightyears ahead of where we were a decade ago.

 

[alan]

Really @alan we cannot discuss things like this in the Kommunist Republik .
It would put a target on our back.

I know as admin, you want to build the conversation and get clicks.

This may be a conversation for a free state like Idaho, but is inherently dangerous in the Kommunist Republik for us.

Maybe getting more into the 2A rights agenda would get you the clicks you need.
Duncan v Bonta for example.

I totally understand the anxiety. Trust me, living under the DOJ's scrutiny in the Kommunist Republik is a real hassle. But as an admin, I have to disagree with the idea that talking shop is "dangerous." If we stop discussing how these systems work, we’re basically letting the state win by censoring our own interests into oblivion. We’re definitely keeping up with the legal side of things. Duncan v Bonta and the mag capacity issues are always front and center in our pinned threads but we can’t let that be our only conversation. Whether you’re building a featureless rig or a compliant bolt-action, it’s still important to know if a 12" gas system is actually reliable or just more hype from the industry. We’ll keep fighting the good fight for the 2A but let’s not lose sight of the "gun" part of our gun forum in the process. We’re gear heads first, even when we’re in tough territory.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

Maybe getting more into the 2A rights agenda would get you the clicks you need.
Duncan v Bonta for example.

A good reminder that Feb. 20th is a big day for many cases, Duncan v Bonta specific. There's a lot on the 2A table, at the moment.

What Q is doing with the 8.6 Blackout and those 12" barrels is a perfect showcase of innovation. That 1:3 twist really helps squeeze out performance from a short barrel, which is just amazing.

They did a lot of things right. The first, they used the 6.5 Creedmoor as the parent case, rather than the 308. Then the twist, as you point out. My first bolt action will be a short action with standard bolt face that I can use for 6.5 Creedmoor, 8.6 blackout, and 308 Win.

I’m on board with the bolt-action MSR vibe especially in a restrictive state like ours. A modern chassis bolt gun gives you all that modularity without the headaches of "featureless" or "fixed-mag" setups. The market is definitely packed but the products tailored for specialized calibers and suppressor hosting are lightyears ahead of where we were a decade ago.

The Fix is a good example of a practical hunting rifle. Shooting the 210 TTSX in Supersonic, the bullets flower into about 3", and then it's spinning at 500,000 rpms... Subsonics are even worse.

The Barnes TTSX will shed their petals in supersonic, and why Hornady lost interest in the 8.6 blackout project, and brought on the 338 ARC, something I don't need since I have 8.6 blackout.

 

[waveslayer]

We can talk all day long about anything, 1st amendment.

CA may not like it, but CA doesn't rule the whole nation.

Yes gas systems are leaps and bounds. I have never had issues with my free guns functioning...

Franklin has their new gas system that is proprietary that will shoot supers and subs with no adjustments, Geiselle as well.

Or juat go piston and then you can really make it a shorty

 

[Saudade]

While I don't have an issue discussing things like NFA items, off roster handguns and other AW related topics, I don't have any direct experience to contribute. Normally I just read the threads, sigh softly and move on.

Don't know if there are any members outside of California at the moment, but someday there will be. The other "CA" forums are full of them. They frequently discuss, showcase things we can only hope will be legit once more.

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

We can talk all day long about anything, 1st amendment.

This is my take also.

CA may not like it, but CA doesn't rule the whole nation.

Exactly, but it would be nice if ARs were equally treated thoughout the country.

Franklin has their new gas system that is proprietary that will shoot supers and subs with no adjustments, Geiselle as well.

Franklin has some pretty invasive mods. Too much for me, and why all of my ARs are not assembled. If I need to defend myself, it's either 300 blackout or 8.6 blackout. Help intruders forcing their way into my home. The chances are very low in Lake County.

Or juat go piston and then you can really make it a shorty

 

[KonoctisWigwam]

While I don't have an issue discussing things like NFA items, off roster handguns and other AW related topics, I don't have any direct experience to contribute. Normally I just read the threads, sigh softly and move on.

That's entirely fine, maybe we can help you understand these grey area laws that have been implemented. I have no love for the California politicians that passed this unconstitutional law.

February 20th could be the day of reckoning. SCOTUS is having a 2A pow-wow...standard capacity magazines plug AWBs. This could be a huge change for California.

Don't know if there are any members outside of California at the moment, but someday there will be. The other "CA" forums are full of them. They frequently discuss, showcase things we can only hope will be legit once more.

Maybe, but the sporting forums have geo locations already. Midwest, East, West, South, etc...

 

[alan]

We can talk all day long about anything, 1st amendment.

CA may not like it, but CA doesn't rule the whole nation.

Yes gas systems are leaps and bounds. I have never had issues with my free guns functioning...

Franklin has their new gas system that is proprietary that will shoot supers and subs with no adjustments, Geiselle as well.

Or juat go piston and then you can really make it a shorty

There’s no doubt that gas system technology has come a long way. But from what I’m seeing, a lot of manufacturers are still relying on that “over-gas it so nobody calls customer service” tactic especially with the shorter barrels. I mean, those fancy proprietary systems are great and piston guns definitely have their place if you want something really compact. But most of the shorties on the market are still tuned a bit too aggressively. They work, sure, but I wouldn’t say they’re optimized. So yeah, there’s progress but the market is still a mix of genuinely better designs and the same old “just make it run everything” approach. Here, we usually end up tuning most of them anyway, just to get that smooth feel instead of a punchy one.

 

[alan]

While I don't have an issue discussing things like NFA items, off roster handguns and other AW related topics, I don't have any direct experience to contribute. Normally I just read the threads, sigh softly and move on.

Don't know if there are any members outside of California at the moment, but someday there will be. The other "CA" forums are full of them. They frequently discuss, showcase things we can only hope will be legit once more.

Totally understand where you’re coming from. Living in Cali means we often find ourselves browsing gear threads like we’re just window-shopping. A lot of the cool stuff people share from other states feels like it’s from a fantasy world for us right now. But even from our vantage point in Cali, you can definitely spot the trend with short-barrel gas systems. Some companies are really stepping up their game with better port sizes and tuning but many are still stuck in the old routine of just over-gassing everything to make it run. It gets the job done but it’s not exactly polished. There are a few barrels that feel nicely balanced right out of the box but they’re still pretty rare. Most folks end up tweaking them by adjusting the block, buffer weight, spring, and doing the usual fine-tuning. So while there’s progress being made, it’s not uniform across the board. Even from behind the Cali curtain, it’s clear which companies are genuinely putting in the work and which ones are just churning out the same old spicy ports.